The CBT Dive

E16 Can’t Break My Soul - When Dating Meets Grind Culture

• Rahim Thawer, MSW • Episode 16

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We’re all on our individual journeys. That’s what this guest strongly believes. Still, there’s legitimate resentment that comes up when you feel judged by people on dating apps who appear to be well sorted with their nice job titles and cushy bank accounts. In this episode, we conjure up Beyonce to help reframe the feelings of inadequacy that arise when capitalism and grind culture don’t fit for people who are working through trauma and managing symptoms of Adult ADHD–which, of course, are overlooked experiences of responsible adulting. 
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ABOUT THE CBT DIVE PODCAST
The CBT Dive is a video podcast that brings therapy skills to the real world. Each episode welcomes a new guest who wants to explore a challenging situation using the most common cognitive behavioural therapy tool: the thought record.

ABOUT HOST
Rahim Thawer is a queer, racialized social worker and psychotherapist based in Toronto. He's created The CBT Dive podcast to support folks who want to learn how to use a thought record and to demystify what therapy can look like.

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UNKNOWN:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to the CBT Dive, a vodcast that goes into the lives of real people with real struggles. Each episode welcomes a new guest who wants to explore a challenging situation using the most common cognitive behavioral therapy tool, the Thought Record. Your host, Raheem Thawar, is a social worker and psychotherapist based in Toronto and well-known for his work in LGBTQ communities. He's created the CBT Dive to diminish Welcome to another

SPEAKER_01:

episode of the CBT Dive. Today we have Terence. Terence Terrence is a special guest. I met him on my travels in South Africa. He is 29 years old, born and raised in Cape Town, identifies as pansexual. Some interesting things about Terrence are that he is an overall creative. He's a published playwright, a screenwriter, and a drama teacher. He has had three significant relationships in his life. And the last time I talked to him, he described them as having failed and I hope we're going to reframe those today as having merely ended or served their purpose. Terrence is a person who is in recovery. He attends weekly AA meetings and he shares this information with us because he's open about his recovery journey and he's felt like the AA meetings are a safe space for where people can share their experiences without receiving unsolicited advice. So those have been extremely therapeutic experiences for him. Welcome, Terrence. How are you today? Hey, good afternoon and first of all, thank you so much for having me. I am stunning. It's a beautiful sunny day. When the sun's out, I am always happy, especially in the middle of winter. Me too. Me too. I am... Like, if this could be Cape Town's winter every day, I would be so happy. I would be so happy. Yeah. Well, cherish it because this is an all winter. Hashtag global warming. So appreciate it because usually Cape Town is quite cold in winter. Not that you would have been bothered by it because you are from a place far colder. So... Yeah, you would have probably been walking around in it while we all walk around in trench coats. Listen, I did bring a trench coat from back home and I planned to, I've already worn it twice. So, you know, it's not outrageous. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, look, I just want to fit in, you know. Terrence, a quick question for you. Outside of the AA therapeutic space, have you accessed other kinds of therapy before? I had a counselor that I saw shortly after I became sober, and she was quite helpful. I only saw her for a short period of time, and then I felt like I was in a good enough space I didn't need anymore. So I saw her for about three months, and then I felt fine. And yeah, that's all. Before I got sober, I had made a practitioner, a TRE practitioner, trauma release exercise is what I think it's called. Oh, amazing. I've done some of that for sobriety also, just checking off a lot of the bad jujus. And I found that to be helpful at the time. Okay, amazing. You are steeped in the process of reflection, insight, behavior change. So I don't need to tell you this, but, you know, doing one thought record is, you know, it's probably not going to be life changing, but it's one of those things that you add to your toolbox of insight and And that would be the goal for us today, is to gain a little bit more insight, areas where you experience a certain intensity of negative or difficult emotion, we can maybe contain it a bit or reduce its intensity. Does that sound like a reasonable goal for today? Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. I am going to go ahead and share my screen. And... What you're going to see is called a CBT thought record. Now this thought record is a linear tool. It's one of the most popular tools in cognitive behavioral therapy, and it allows us to work through a situation, a very specific situation. So in our initial call, we talked about situations that might bring up difficult feelings for you. And we identified that one challenging situation is when you're swiping on Tinder. So you're on this dating app and you start to become acutely aware of people's professions and especially that of younger guys. Before we go and analyze this situation and examine the feelings and the subsequent thoughts, is there any more context you want to give us or any more you want to tell us about relationships, your intention with dating, Anything else we need to know about the setting? Well, I'm at the point where I am, and I put it on my profile also, I'm not necessarily looking for a relationship. Rather just, I guess, social connections, meeting up for a drink and going with the flow and just, you know, becoming maybe just friends or whatever. Yes. But definitely not in a space of wanting relationships. Okay. All right. So your objective for dating is, at the moment, it's about meeting people. Is that right? Yes, yes. I've found myself, I've found that my circle has shrunk. My circle of friends and I've moved in by myself. So I've put a lot of changes in that regard. Yeah, I feel like I need to put, not need to, but want to put myself out there and make a few more queer friends, essentially. Absolutely. I can appreciate that. So let's dive right in. When you think about this situation or you recall this situation, because it's a reoccurring one, right? It's not one difficult moment you had. It's a recurring thing. Tell me about some of the feelings that come up when you're aware of people's professions.

SPEAKER_02:

So I'd say, yeah, first off,

SPEAKER_01:

investment. There's embarrassment. There's resentment. Yeah, resentment. There's frustration. And there's anger. And yeah, that's necessarily how I feel towards, you know, the strangers. who I don't know, but a lot of it's internal towards myself. Of course, yeah. Look, this is a good list of feelings that have come up, and it wasn't too hard for you to identify them, which is good. So we've got embarrassed, resentful, frustration, or frustrated and angry. I'm going to ask... about a couple more feelings, because sometimes it's nice to thicken it up a little bit, or to fill the bucket, as it were. So let me know if any of these feelings resonate with you. Sadness? Yeah, there's a degree of sadness, basically. Curiosity? No. No? Is there any? This feels like I'm going on the positive side, but I am curious if there's any excitement or optimism? No. You're like, no. How dare you? Okay, okay. What about the other end of that spectrum? Cynicism or skepticism? It's nihilism. I'll put that down. I mean, that is, I don't know if nihilism is a feeling, but I guess, you know, we'll go with it. How about ashamed or inadequate? Inadequate. Inadequate is a nice one. I think ashamed goes with embarrassment. Definitely there is inadequacy. Okay. Is there any worry or fear or anxiety? There is anxiety. There is definitely anxiety. Okay. There is fear as well, yes. There's fear. Okay. Anything else? No, I can't think of it anymore. I'm just thinking, I'm trying to imagine, like, I know this feeling to some degree, like the one where we are swiping. And if it all felt bad, I feel like we wouldn't necessarily do it. But sometimes hidden in there is a kind of longing that comes with, like if we're seeking or looking for something, you know, we're not necessarily doing research, but we're longing for connection. Yeah, there's a degree. I think you had mentioned earlier, there is a degree of excitement when one swipes because it's, You know, there's that hope. There's hope. There's excitement and there's hope. Hoping that you, you know, you find a match. And there's an excitement of, ooh, this profile will be like me. So, yeah. It's not all. Yes, look, even if the excitement is the smallest slice of The pie chart, when it comes to your feelings and the situation, it's still worth putting down. So I've added excitement and hope. All right, I'm going to read through the feelings one more time. So you're swiping on Tinder, feeling acutely aware of people's professions, especially younger guys. Your feeling list, embarrassed, resentful, frustrated, angry, sad, nihilistic or nihilism, inadequate, anxiety or anxious, fear, excitement, hope. Does that cover the gamut of feelings? I think that covers it rather accurately. We couldn't do any more feelings if we tried. Our next task is to rate each of these emotions on a scale of 1 to 10. And you're rating them for intensity. So 10 is the most intense that you feel it in this particular situation, and one would be not intense at all. But, you know, they're in a very, very small quantity. So how would you rate embarrassment? I'd say a seven. Okay. And resentful? An eight. Frustration or frustrated? Also an eight. Angry. Seven. Sadness. I'd say a three. A three, did you say? Yes. Okay. Nihilism. Currently a seven. Wow. Okay. Inadequate or inadequacy. Anxiety. Six. Fear. Five. Excitement. Five. I thought you were going to do four, three, two. Okay. And hope. Hope. Okay. So you've done a great job so far. You've expanded your core feelings to include some other ones. That doesn't mean those other ones are like positive. It's not like you left out a bunch of positive ones, but I think we're getting a better sense of the depth of this experience. So when you're swiping and you feel this range of things, What do you tend to do? We're in the next column here that says behavior. Do you keep swiping? Do you stop? Do you go for a jog? Do you have a snack? Do you send angry messages to people? What do you do? It ranges. So there are times when thoughts are fleeting. These are essentially... intrusive thought so and I'm able to recognize that so I try to not ponder too much but obviously there are days where they affect me more than others so yeah on those days actually I'm currently I don't have the app I deleted it so I go through these phases where I'll delete it entirely so I don't just log out I will delete it other times I just close it I try to put it as far away from my home screen as possible so that it's a mission to kind of get there because I also find when I procrastinate, then I want to go on there. And usually I'm procrastinating because I'm supposed to be doing work. So when I, and then when I procrastinate, I'm aware of the fact that I'm procrastinating. So I feel frustrated with myself. Then I go through this experience and I feel even more negative. So it's just the cycle. So, um, I, uh, Yeah, on the days when it really affects me badly, I try to, I really do like a concerted effort in trying to get back to work because, you know, it's never like, okay, I'm going to sit and I'm going to Tinder. You know, I don't think Tinder people ever sit down and say like, this is now my like Tinder hour. I think it usually happens in those moments when you're bored, you're procrastinating, you're waiting for your bus or whatever. So in those moments, I try to get my mind kind of going towards something that I should be doing instead to kind of just channel some positive thoughts instead. All right. But there are those days when it's harder, where I get wrapped up in these thoughts. And that's something that's been happening a lot lately and what I've been struggling with the most. So I'm just going to read out the behavior. So our listeners, especially folks who are just doing the audio, can get a sense of all the things you've mentioned here. Because it's a good range of strategies. So you recognize that you're procrastinating work tasks. That's part of why you're on Tinder. So you want to contain the procrastination of work by switching back to some priority tasks. Then you... Employ this strategy where you close the app and put it far away from your home screen. There's other times that you delete the app entirely. Overall, you're also thinking about ways to manage intrusive thoughts that you're experiencing. So tell me about the intrusive thoughts. Now we're moving to the next column, which is called automatic thoughts. These are things that, you know, you don't have to work real hard to come up with. They pop into your mind. What are those thoughts in this situation? Well, I mean, yeah, first of all, it's the feelings. It's a lot of the, if I can relate them to the feelings list, you know, it's thoughts of inadequacy, feeling like I'm not good enough, feeling like I am a failure. Yeah, it's a negative voice that says, yeah, you're not good enough. your failure, feelings of hopelessness. Hopelessness around? Relationships or careers? Career, yeah. So this is more careers as opposed to relationships. Okay. And so you're thinking... So... Help us understand here. So I hear these thoughts that I'm not good enough and I'm a failure. When you're comparing yourself, help me understand a bit more about what is being compared. Because when I read out your bio, you sound... like you're kicking ass. You're, you know, you're a published playwright. You're a drama teacher. You're a writer. I know, I happen to know, you know, from our conversations that you do these cool, like, voiceover things for lots of shows and films. So, you know, as somebody who's just meeting you, your work life sounds kind of cool. So tell me where you don't feel like it's so good or what doesn't feel so good. Okay, yeah. So on paper, I can fully understand that. So I will also just need to clarify, I'm not an active drama teacher at the moment. I used to be a drama teacher. So where it comes in is at 29, I still don't have full financial independence. I still... received some financial assistance from my guardians for my semi-adopted parents and so it's a pride it's an ego thing you know society has and it's so silly because I know it's it's society's standards and I don't need to follow those standards in a privileged position that I am able to still receive help while I try and figure out and navigate. But yeah, society has kind of, I guess, led a lot of us to believe that, you know, by the age of 30, you should have accomplished X, Y, Z and you should have this and this savings and you need... So because that is the standard that I've identified and recognized and I don't feel like I'm there. So these feelings... of inadequacy creep when I see other people that are there, even though I don't know anything about them. I know it's really silly, but yeah, I don't know anything about their life. I don't know anything about their struggles, but I see this profession and they've done this and they're doing this and working for this company and immediately I'm just like, well, so it also brings me back to why it is. So I have a job, but it's not a very stimulating job. So I work as a translator. at a dubbing studio where we translate Turkish shows into Afrikaans, which is one of the languages here in South Africa. So I don't speak Turkish. So the company gets that have been translated from Turkish to English. I just translate the English scripts to Afrikaans. So it's a simple job. It's not difficult. And it includes a form of writing, but it's not so much. I don't really get an opportunity to be creative. It's more technical. Yeah, it's not very creative. It's more technical because it's more about trying to... Turkish is a very dynamic language. Afrikaans is the opposite. So what people... A three-syllable sentence in Turkish would require seven syllables in Afrikaans. And I was trying to find these translations and trying to find ways to make it all work and fit in and keep the meaning of the story. So there's a technical element to it. So it's a job that becomes quite tedious sometimes. And when I started, it was nice, it was fine, but I'm just finding myself at a place where I'm not very stimulated at the moment. And I'm doing this while I'm so busy with a few creative things. I'm busy writing a feature film, busy writing a short film, and busy working on a theatre play. So I am doing these creative things, but I do find that I'm not as passionate as I used to be, so I'm feeling a And so all those things kind of like muddle into one that adds to this whole sense of existentialism. Okay. I'm going to pause you there for a second. You, you've said a lot of really helpful things in terms of like helping me understand where you're coming from. Okay. So the creative parts of your life, So not the translation job. I guess that sounded cool to me, but you're saying it's not stimulating, it's tedious. So I hear you. The other creative things. No, no, no, no, no, no. The creative things aren't what is tedious. It's the translating job. Yes. Yeah, yeah. I get that. The creative jobs aren't giving me money at the moment. So I think that's the crux of it all. That's okay. So I just wanted to, that's exactly what I wanted to get to. So are you finding enough time for the creative work or is the paid work getting in the way of the creative work? The paid work is getting in the way of the creative work. Okay. So I'm going to, I'm just going to write this out here. My paid work gets paid. in the way of my creative work and your creative work is the thing you love. And if you're, if you, let's say magically you didn't have to do the paid work and you could focus a lot on the creative work, which from what I understand would pay off in monies later on, potentially if you did it. Yeah. And if you didn't, if you, if you could devote more time to it, would you feel better about being on Tinder or Grindr or whatever it is? Like, would you feel more accomplished? Would you feel like you're comparing yourself less negatively to others? Well, and I don't know if I'm jumping ahead here. I'm currently, it's a question that I've asked myself. I was unhappy with this job. You should leave it. And I asked myself, well, what is it that you want to do? So, Devoting all my time to my craft and my writing and creating didn't necessarily result in financial stability in the short term. It could open doors and create opportunities later down the road, but in the short term, not so much. And so I asked myself, This is what you want to do. And I'm kind of finding myself in a space where I actually can't answer that, where I feel like I've kind of lost my passion and my drive a bit. And I think that also results in a feeling of loss career-wise because this thing that I always thought I wanted, I'm not so sure I want anymore. But then I don't actually know what it is in that I want. So there's a lot of confusion there. as well on top of everything so when i talk about comparing myself on tinder it's not it um yeah i don't get i don't want to say i get intimidated by this by this by this profile that is in angie's job it's not so much it's actually not so much about this other person's much more about me and my own feelings when i see this um yeah when i see when i see that because i want to be successful in what I want to feel good about what it is that I'm doing, and I don't at the moment, and I don't know what it is that I need to do to make me feel good, if that makes sense. So, okay. I'm a bit lost career-wise, and I don't feel good about what I'm doing at the moment. Now, you did say that... On the one hand, there is a comparative element. You compare yourself to these other people, but it's not like you're saying, I want what they have. You're more saying, no, you're more like, I want to have, I assume they've got some kind of happiness and I want to have that too. Yes, that is kind of it. So I think other guys have success and happiness, and I want that too. All right, let's go back to the first couple things you had said, which was I am not good enough and I am a failure. Those are bold things to say, and they were the first things that came out of your mouth. So when you say I'm not good enough, is that– Is that in terms of the money in your bank account? Is that in terms of your capacity for dating? What is that about? Tell me more. In what way are you not good enough? And in whose eyes? Whew. This is actually the first time I've had to confront this thought, to be very frank. When it's in your head, it's different when someone else asks you this question. And I realize it's quite a hectic thing, it's an intense thing to think about myself. And I'm now sitting here and I'm like, shit.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I feel like

SPEAKER_01:

I've accomplished a lot of things. I definitely have. I acknowledge that I've won awards. I have been nominated for things. I've been finalist in things. I've published plays. The work is respected. I have a very high standard for myself in the sense that I know what I'm capable of And I've never reached that standard because I've always gotten along with doing the bare minimum. I feel like I've managed to bamboozle people. I mean, I shouldn't be saying this aloud, but I'm going to. The draft of my play, that's only the second draft. I spent almost no time trying to work on it. I mean, the story was good enough. And that's what I've kind of, kind of always I'm one of those people that leave things to the last minute so when I deadline I would leave it to the last minute and that's where I thrive but you know that's not how I want to as an artist I want to do things differently but I've just always struggled with time management and with executive functioning generally speaking time management task management prioritizing etc so procrastinating I have ADHD. So, yeah, I'm on stimulant medication now, but I haven't always been, and that's been a real struggle. So when I say I'm not good enough, it's good enough in my own eyes because I know the ability I have, and I've kind of been relying on just natural talent. And I am talented, without a doubt, that much I know, but I'm not a hard worker, and I want to be one. And so I... And being a failure is a failure in the sense that, yeah, and I hate to say this stupid capitalistic society that we live in, but yes, it is a financial where I hate the fact that I sleep financial assistance, but that also is not entirely my fault. It's also just the arts in this country is not respected. Opportunities are, there are few opportunities, but I also know that I, I should be working harder. I should be trying to find things and putting work and effort into my life. And I would, but now the tricky part comes in that I'm currently in the same existential crisis where I don't know what it is that I want to do. So I feel like I've got this potential to put in all this effort and work. And I feel like I just need somebody with the answers to just be like, hey, why don't you want to do that? Because I honestly do not know. Okay. I'm just rearranging some of your thoughts here because there's a lot of them and they're all poignant, right? They're all so relevant and they're really getting me to think as well about the system we live in. So you say, I struggle with executive function and task management. So that is a barrier you experience. But then you say, I'm not a hard worker. And that's where we get, I'm not good enough, I'm a failure, I should be working harder. So when you say you're not a hard worker, is that because you've gotten by at some point doing the bare minimum or because you did something last minute as opposed to giving it your full effort? Is that why you say that? The prior case, I feel like I've gotten by with, yeah, I've gotten by with with last minute things and doing the bare minimum. And it's tricky because, like I said, it's like there's this part of me that wants to work and wants to put in the effort, but I get this block. It's this wall. I can't describe it. It's a wall where every intention of wanting to, but I can't. I just, you know, and that's a frustration that I struggle with. is that I know the potential that I have, but this wall is there, and I struggle to break through it. Okay. So if you have a block that you can't push through, what do you think that says about you? Or what do you think that that says about your future? Because I think there's a deeper fear or anxiety there. Yeah, well, I mean, yes, that's where the anxiety comes in because I have this fear that, you know, I'm heading into a point in my life where I find kind of like I need to sort of think stability and I just feel like it's never going to come. And I have a fear that this war will always be an issue and that this is kind of where the nihilism comes in because I'm like, well, what is the point? if no matter how hard I try, I'm just always going to run into this wall. And that maybe even if I change industries, if I change jobs, if I change, you know, that I'll keep running into the wall. Okay. I'm just writing some of that out. So I've gotten by with doing the bare minimum, but I want to work. but have a block, right? And we're describing the block as this wall. And the consequence of that or your fear is that I'll never have stability or the wall will always be an issue. Or I don't know what the point of trying is if I keep coming up against the wall. When you say you've gotten by with doing the bare minimum, Is there some meaning you draw from that? Is that where you say you're not a hard worker because you've gotten by doing the bare minimum? Yes. Ah, okay. I'm going to move over to some of the other things you had mentioned. When you talk about your... you not necessarily being completely financially independent, if people you were looking to go on dates with, if they found out about that or if you shared that with them, what do you think they would think about you? I think most people wouldn't care. I honestly think most other people wouldn't care. What do you think about that? What does it say about you? To me, that makes me feel... Well, that's where my feelings of feeling like a failure stem from, is from that and... Yeah, it's my pride, essentially, that makes me feel then less than and inadequate. That's how I feel about it. Yeah. But I don't think most people would care. When you talk about pride and you also talk about these specific milestones, age 29, I'm on my way to 30, this is what should be the case. If it's not the case, does it mean that I'm not properly an adult? Is that the thought or the belief? Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to write that down. I'm not properly an adult. And if you're not properly an adult, what does that mean in terms of your capacity for making decisions, employment, and being in relationships? Is there an impact? Well, definitely. That's one of the reasons why I, at this point in time, don't want a relationship anymore. I feel like there's a lot of internal work that I need to do and I need to figure out. And, and I'm, I'm aware of all of these thoughts and I don't want to go with all of this uncertainty into a relationship and take all that baggage with. So, yeah, let's go slow here for a minute. So you're no, because I know you're aware of, I know you're very aware of all the things that are going on, but yeah, I think we're getting to something that maybe we haven't yet articulated. So I'm not properly an adult and therefore I'm not ready for a relationship. Or if I bring this into a relationship, what will happen? Help me connect that. So it's not necessarily just these things. I feel like I have a lot of baggage. also related to past traumas. And so I feel like I need to deal with the traumas first before I can fully, I feel like, embrace another person. On the surface level, I love myself. I respect myself. But I feel like I feel like subconsciously my inner child is still dealing with a lot of shit from my childhood, like being abandoned, losing my parents at a young age. And so there's a lot of those things that still need to be resolved. And I've kind of made the decision that I've come to the realization that I need to deal with those things first before I can get into a relationship. because I feel like it would be unfair to cut all this baggage. And my past relationships and what I call them fail is because I feel like it started off great. There's the honeymoon phase and then, yeah, and then things just fall apart and they're mostly my fault. Okay. In all three relationships, if you feel like the ending was predominantly or primarily your fault, what was it that you weren't able to do or that you did do or that you did say that contributed to the end or to the failure? So there's a person where At the beginning of the relationship, I was one to ask each three of these people out. So I recognized there was a connection. I was like, ooh, we should date. And then there was this intensity for the beginning phase. And then comes an uncertainty. where I'm like, oh, should I have made the right decision? Should I have been in a relationship with this person? I don't know if I really do like this person. And with two of them, you know, I got to the point where we said we love one another. And then I get to the point where I then demonize them and I then start treating them. And this is unconscious. This is just me. This is in reflection. And that's why I call them fell. In reflection, I realized I started... find fault in them and sort of have to be worse than they are. I almost had a reason to leave them or a reason to self-destruct in a sense. Okay, okay. So if I were to give that pattern a word, it might be... It might be about... sabotaging the relationship or fear of being trapped or something like that. That's what I'm getting from that pattern. Do either of those fit? Would you say that you were feeling trapped or that you were sabotaging it? Yeah, I got to a point where I felt trapped, where I felt suffocated and I felt... Yeah, I felt like I didn't want to be with this person anymore. And then there was a lot of guilt around it because I felt like I was the one who initiated things. Okay. So there's a new thought emerging here. And it's a thought that has to do with the story you're telling me, which is, of course, a different situation than... swiping through Tinder, but I'll write it out and you let me know if it fits. So I'm thinking one of your more subconscious thoughts includes or is I'm not relationship ready. I'll feel And then I'll sabotage it. This is because... Oh, wait. And I'm going to copy this part here. Okay. These seem to be two, I mean, these are more than just one thought, right? But I'm not relationship ready. I'll feel trapped and then I'll sabotage it. I need to do trauma work and be financially more stable first. It sounds to me like these are the different pieces that are going on in your mind. Yes. Yeah. Okay. All right. So there's a lot here. Okay. Terrence, I'm going to read out some of your automatic thoughts, including the ones that I've added in or I've organized as you've talked. And what I want you to do is I want you to think about this particular experience on Tinder. So you've told me we've gone in two directions. We've gone in the direction of your past relationships and And we've gone in the direction of how you feel about your career. Tinder is a place where these things come together. So let's find one automatic thought or one statement here that you feel is most prominent and it's driving a lot of the difficult feelings. Does that make sense? So we're going to pick one that you think is like the main one. So I struggle with executive function and task management. I'm not a hard worker. I'm not good enough. I'm a failure. I should be working harder. I've gotten by with doing the bare minimum, but I want to work, but I have a block. I'll never have stability. The wall will always be an issue. I don't know what the point of trying is if I keep coming up against the wall. I'm still struggling with financial independence at age 29. I'm not properly an adult. I'm not fit to be in a relationship. I need to do trauma work and be more financially stable first. I'm not relationship ready. I'll feel trapped and then I'll sabotage it. I need to do trauma work and be financially more stable first. Of these, what stands out to you as really capturing the difficult feelings you have?

SPEAKER_02:

I'd

SPEAKER_01:

say that I'm struggling with financial independence at age 29. I'm not probably an adult. And I'm not fit to be in a relationship. I need to do trauma work and be financially more stable first. I'd say that whole section. That whole section. Okay. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to highlight these parts. Let's say I'm not properly an adult. I'm not fit to be in a relationship. I need to do trauma work and be financially stable first. Okay. So now I'll tell you now. That is a very loaded thought, and it's more than one thought. But because we're only doing one session, we only have one kick at the can, so to speak. So in a more typical cognitive behavioral therapy treatment or setting, we would break this in and do multiple thought records. But here we're going to take this whole thought, this whole big thought, and we're going to work with it. I'm not properly an adult. I'm not fit to be in a relationship. I need to do trauma work and be financially stable first. Those are three major thoughts. Now, can you give me some evidence that supports that thought? We're going to call it the hot thought. It's the one that's most salient. So you could even give me evidence that supports each piece of it. So evidence that supports you're not properly an adult. You've told me that, right? Not financially independent. Yeah. What's evidence that you're not fit to be in a relationship? My history of sabotaging relationships. Okay, so my history of sabotaging relationships. Yeah. All right. Just working on my spelling here. And so you have done some trauma work. And has it made you better in some of your relationships, whether they're romantic, casual dating or friendships?

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I wouldn't... I mean, it's been... I haven't really done trauma work, first of all. A lot of it has been self-reflection. That's okay. Self-realization. So I've definitely gained a lot of clarity and I've had a few realizations and epiphanies. But I wouldn't say... that actively and it's been too soon for me to see a difference in my relationship but I am very self-aware a lot of the time you are and so in being self-aware and doing therapeutic self-reflection and even You know, being in recovery, like you're not drinking anymore, right? Has that shifted the way you're able to be in connection with people? Well, yes. My sobriety has become worth a sense of awareness of myself. I mean, one really positive part of it is that I feel like I know who I am. Um, I have a better understanding of, of, of myself and I continuously, um, I'm learning new things about myself. Um, this is, and yeah, it definitely shaped, I guess, the way I perceive relationships and, and, um, yeah, I think if I wasn't sober, I'd probably still just be calling for the, you know, someone off the first date and, and telling them I love them after a month. or whatever, not being sure what that word means. I think also something that has happened is I've re-evaluated what it means and realized that I've used it quite frivolously and I had a misunderstanding of it that at the time I was certain that's what it was, but re-evaluating it with a more clear mind, I've I've come to an understanding of what that word truly means. So, yeah, my newfound clarity has definitely helped. Okay. So here's evidence that supports your hot thought. One, I'm not financially independent, right? And like it or not, that's how you've constructed in your mind what adulthood is. So you say, I'm not properly an adult. I say, why? You say, I'm not financially independent. I won't argue with it. That becomes a kind of evidence that supports that thought. The other big thought here is I'm not fit to be in a relationship. What's the evidence? Well, my history of sabotaging relationships. If somebody said, hey, Terrence, do you think you need to sort out your trauma while you're in a relationship? Or is it a prerequisite? You might say, okay, well, my evidence here is that my therapeutic self-reflection and my sobriety has helped me with understanding myself, which of course would be better for a future relationship. And also, If I wasn't sober, and the way you do seek current therapy is, you know, you go to your AA meetings. So if you weren't in that space, you'd be in unhealthy relationship patterns. So all of this evidence supports the way you've been thinking, right? Now, I want you to come up with some evidence that does not support these ideas. So give me some evidence that you are properly an adult um so i'm an adult when i do what we're an adult when i pay my balls um uh i'm an adult when i um when i'm I'm looking for work. I'm looking for jobs. That's where I currently

SPEAKER_02:

am. Picking up. Picking employment.

SPEAKER_01:

Taking the time to self-reflect and to grow. I think that internally, yeah. Okay, so I'm an adult when I pay my bills, seek employment, invest in personal development. And if I may add, when you stick with the job that feels tedious because it pays your bills. Yeah. That doesn't bring you joy, but that's adulting, isn't it? Yeah, that is adulting 101. Okay. So... When you say you're not fit to be in a relationship, give me some evidence that suggests you are fit to be in a relationship. A strong sense of self-awareness.

SPEAKER_02:

And

SPEAKER_01:

how does that help in a relationship? Well, I think when there is conflict, I think it's good that you, yeah. Yep. And this idea that you need to do more trauma work or you need to be more financially stable as prerequisites for a relationship. I want you to challenge that just a touch. I'm not saying go on a completely different path, but is there some evidence in your life that relationships are possible and other people will be interested in you even when you haven't done the trauma work or you're not super financially stable? Oh, definitely. I mean, all my past relationships happened when neither of those things, when I wasn't financially stable, when I hadn't worked in my past trauma. So, yeah, I think someone would be more open. I don't think those are factors that would deter anyone. Mm-hmm. So I'm just going to write lots of people were into me before, right? So lots, lots and lots. All right. So you've got this amalgamated hot thought. I'm not properly an adult. I'm not fit to be in a relationship. I need to do trauma work and be financially stable before I'm in a relationship, right? And then you've got evidence that supports that idea. And then you've got evidence that does not. And the evidence that does not says, well, I'm an adult already. When I pay my bills, seek employment, invest in personal development and stick with a tedious job. I have a strong sense of self-awareness. That's a relationship quality. It helps me resolve conflict. And I don't necessarily need to do a bunch of things before I'm relationship ready. Lots of people were into me before and I didn't have financial stability then. And I wasn't doing any trauma work then. So look, What I'd like for you to do now is come up with an alternative thought, something alternative while you're swiping on Tinder specifically, and you're looking at these guys' professions, and you're thinking to yourself, I'm not properly an adult. I'm not fit to be in a relationship. What can you say to yourself in response to the hot thought? Something that's a bit more affirming, but balanced. I think the thing that I have already tried or tried to remind myself of is the fact that we're all on an individual journey. And what does that mean for the people you meet on Tinder? Well, I mean, this is more related to the comparisons that I'm making. Yes. And so if people are on an individual journey, I just want you to go a bit deeper. So the people who've got the fancy jobs and presumably cushioned bank accounts, what does that mean? Like, what is their journey i want to say we all yeah what it means is that i don't know necessarily um the i'm seeing a very i don't know necessarily what it is that they have had maybe they had a privileged life and um i mean i have my own privileges but i also struggled quite a lot I have mental health issues. I have my ADHD. So for all I know, they've had it quite easy. And they've had it, yeah, they've just had a slightly different life and they've made different choices. And that's impacted the life that they're living now. Okay. So we're all on an individual journey. People with nice job titles. may have a different struggle. Is that right? Yes. And how would they think about you? Would they understand you as an adult? Do you think they would see you as being fit to be in a relationship? Yeah, I just think so. What would they appreciate about you? Or how would they arrive at this idea that, hey, Terrence maybe doesn't earn the amount I do or doesn't have the kind of job title I have, but he's a good bloke. I'd date him. What would get them there? I mean, I think the thing I'm most proud of is my sense of self-awareness. My sense of self-awareness, my personality. I like to think that I am a kind person, an understanding person, empathetic person. I feel a lot of good qualities that make me a decent human being. Yeah. So what I've written here is other guys will, and in brackets, will have to appreciate my self-awareness and personality and empathy, right?

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And do you think that you're worthy of a relationship even if you haven't done the trauma work? Or if your old pattern were to show up while you attempted to date somebody, do you have new tools that you might use to deal with that or to interrupt that cycle? Yeah, well, I definitely think that I'm worthy. Without a doubt, it's just a case of maybe not being ready as opposed to being worthy. And yes, I do think I have so much more self-awareness now than I had before that I feel like I'd be able to identify these patterns now and to approach them in a different manner. Well, not approach them in a different manner, just approach them as I haven't ever approached them before. Whilst in a relationship. Okay. Give me one sec here. Okay. So I'm worthy of relationships, just perhaps not ready. If I were in one now, I'd approach things differently than I have in the past. Now, Terrence, if somebody says, or somebody is put off or not that interested in you because on paper, you're not accomplished in the ways that they are with this, you know, the job titles, the profession, what do you tell yourself? What can you say to help you combat that or to put that into perspective?

SPEAKER_02:

I mean,

SPEAKER_01:

I would think it's unreasonable for this person to think that because that's just one part of me. Well, saying that a lot makes me realize that I've been unreasonable. Yeah, it would be... And then I think I'd go back to, to I guess the journey thing about, you know, we are all on our own different journeys and we all have had different struggles and all currently maybe struggle from different things and different hurdles that some have that others don't. And if it's, if they're judging you unreasonably, are they a good candidate to be in a relationship with you? No. Because then you're not rejecting... They're not rejecting you. You're rejecting them. Oh, yeah. Okay. So I've written here, if I'm judged by others about my career, that would be unreasonable. I don't want to be with them then. Or I don't want to be with them anyway. We've got four... really strong alternative thoughts. I'm going to read them out. And as I do, I want you to think about which one rings most true to you, but also like not just most true, but which one do you believe in? What do you find most helpful in your body? Okay. So we're all on an individual journey. People with nice job titles may have a different struggle. Other guys will have to appreciate my self-awareness, personality, and empathy. I'm worthy of relationships, just perhaps not ready. If I were in one now, I'd approach things differently than I have in the past. If I'm judged by others about my career, that would be unreasonable. I don't want to be with them anyway. This will be the first one. The first one. All right. So I'm going to put that in bold. We're all on an individual journey. People with nice job titles might have a different struggle. And then if they don't have a different struggle, if they've had everything handed to them, then we revert back down to the last one. If you're being judged, then they're not for you. So as you think about these alternative thoughts, but particularly the first one, I want you to just meditate on it for a moment. Think about yourself scrolling through Tinder or swiping on Tinder. And you really embrace this idea that you're on individual journeys. How would you rate your intensity of embarrassment? Three, two, two. Okay. How about resentful? One. Okay. What about frustrated? One. Angry? one sad one okay nihilism one inadequate

SPEAKER_02:

one

SPEAKER_01:

anxious

SPEAKER_02:

one fear

SPEAKER_01:

Excitement. Hope. Did you say eight? Okay, cool. So you completed the thought record. Are there any new feelings that come up for you as you embrace the alternative thought? A sense of hope, to be frank. Yeah. In realizing that I think a lot of my thoughts have been unreasonable. And yeah, I'm being reminded of the fact that we're all on our individual journeys, it definitely gives me more hope and kind of flips the switch and makes me look at it with a completely different lens. Yeah. Look, I'm looking at your thought record here and your ratings are And so as a result, the intensity of a lot of these feelings whittled down quite a bit. However, if you reflected on this and you thought, well, my sadness actually goes up a little bit, that would also make sense, you know, because when you think about comparing yourself to others, you know, Yes, we're all on individual journeys. Yes, people with nice job titles also have other kinds of struggles. But do we live in a classist, elitist world? Sure. Are you going to meet jerks on the internet? Like 1,000%. But your self-awareness seems to have taken you to a place where you're actually not that interested in winning the– acceptance and affection of people who are like deeply classes and can appreciate how, you know, mental health and trauma could affect somebody in, you know, in the way their life plays out like that. It doesn't seem like you're interested in meeting somebody who doesn't, they don't have to understand it, but you're not so interested in meeting someone who doesn't have the capacity to appreciate that. So that eliminates a lot of those nonsense guys out there. Yeah. Terrence, what has your experience been like doing this thought record? What are you taking away from it? How does it feel in your body? I think when I started, when we started, when we got to the point of evidence that does not support thought as well as an alternative thought you know it really flipped on its head how how I've maybe thought of myself how I've been maybe a bit unreasonable and to be a lot kinder to myself and acknowledge the fact I have made it through a lot And I've had a few hurdles in my life, and I currently still do. And I don't have to dictate on the hurdles, but the hurdles are there. They are there, and I can't be like they aren't there. And to also look at the support that I have and to, yeah, the support in Paris and the world that we live in and realize that the support And love that I have is definitely a privilege without a doubt. And I should definitely embrace that and love that to help guide me and find answers. And I guess I don't have to have all the answers now. And it's okay to have uncertainty. It's going to be like this forever. Forever. Right. Yeah. If I can quote Beyonce, it won't break my soul. Like you're not going to let it break your soul, right? I think you're actively resisting grind culture and how the world makes you feel bad and you just can't let it break your soul.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

release I'm releasing it all oh the release part yes Terrence that's the end of our episode I'm sorry No, go ahead. What were you going to say? I was going to add, it's so funny that, so before I logged on, I came from the gym and the shower, but on my way to the gym because we're going to release. And of course it's going to be on repeat. And I remember listening to it on the way and just really listen to the lyrics and really just, it's such an affirming song and just such a wonderful reminder of, to myself whilst I'm in this low space, just not let it break my soul. So it's really been a beautiful experience listening to that song. And thank you so much for this experience. And I appreciate it so much. Really, truly. You're very welcome, Terrence. Thank you to you and thank you to our listeners. This has been an episode of The CBT Dive. See you next time.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks for tuning in to the CBT Dive. Don't miss an episode. Subscribe to our YouTube channel at thecbtdive.ca. You can also listen on the go wherever you get your podcasts. To follow Rahim on social media, check out ladyativan.com. See you soon.

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Rahim Thawer, MSW

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