The CBT Dive

Feeling frazzled and not knowing where to start

• Rahim Thawer, MSW • Season 2 • Episode 5

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Host and psychotherapist Rahim Thawer talks with David, a masters student who is struggling with balancing his career with his schoolwork. Together they delve into the feelings and thoughts of dread, exhaustion, urgency, and self-criticism that emerge in the evening when David is done with work for the day but procrastinates before starting his schoolwork. They also touch on the concept of misattribution of arousal and the fear of financial decline due to academic challenges. The themes of energy, capacity, and comparison with peers emerge as central to the automatic thoughts.

ABOUT THE CBT DIVE PODCAST
The CBT Dive is a video podcast that brings therapy skills to the real world. Each episode welcomes a new guest who wants to explore a challenging situation using the most common cognitive behavioural therapy tool: the thought record.

ABOUT HOST
Rahim Thawer is a queer, racialized social worker and psychotherapist based in Toronto. He's created The CBT Dive podcast to support folks who want to learn how to use a thought record and to demystify what therapy can look like.

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SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to the CBT Dive. This is the podcast that demystifies cognitive behavioral therapy. I'm psychotherapist and host Rahim Thawar. In each episode, I walk a guest through applying CBT skills to real world situations. Hi, welcome, David. How are you today?

SPEAKER_02:

i'm doing okay i'm doing okay

SPEAKER_00:

oh that's good folks i'm welcoming david to this podcast david is somebody i met in 2009 which is i don't know 15 16 years ago we were both working in the hiv sector i think we were doing similar work like anti-homophobia work hiv prevention work We work for different organizations, but we're doing some collaboration together. And since then, we've just been weaving in and out of each other's lives in this world of social service work or social work and therapy, working with queer guys and other marginalized folks. He's liked to talk about big issues and really explore them with his nearest and dearest. David, is there anything else you'd like to add?

SPEAKER_02:

No, I thought it was a decent summary.

SPEAKER_00:

All right. So David, what do you know about cognitive behavioral therapy and have you ever tried it before?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So I'm familiar with CBT, both through school and like my earliest memory was when I was an adolescent and it was a family therapist that I was working with used it on used the modality with me. Yeah, so fairly familiar, but it's been a while since I've been on this side of the process.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, because you're so used to helping other people. All right, so David. Before today, we talked about what we might analyze, what we might spend some time talking about. And one of the things you struggle with is procrastinating. And I don't know that it's just with schoolwork, but you're a lifelong learner and you're often in and out of different programs. And so you decided to talk about procrastinating. procrastinating on schoolwork. Now I want you to give me a bit more information about the situation. So think about a particular time you procrastinated. And I'm curious about the time of day and day of the week.

SPEAKER_02:

So I tend to have school alongside work. So work is also present. And so it's about segmenting out portions of my day to attend to assignments and readings. I usually carve out the later half of my day to school-related tasks. And I find that once the workday is sort of done, I have other tasks that need to get done. And I find myself sort of pushing further and further. You know, there's a deferral process that happens.

SPEAKER_00:

So you work. and then you're like, I'm gonna do school in the latter part of the day. But if you're working till 4.30, I'm gonna say you're attempting it at five, at the earliest. I'm curious about the time between work and school. Has it ever been successful that you're able to sit down and get started on the next thing?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I don't know if it's ever been. Not like this. But I feel like as I've gotten older, the ability to transition from one task to another gets harder for me. and and so yeah i i've i'm discovering more and more a difficulty in in managing multiple expectations at once in my in mind and then having a real poor sense of time and then time management

SPEAKER_00:

it's overwhelming so here's what i've got david so our situation is that it's not Like procrastination is the behavior that tends to emerge, but it's also a label you've given something you do. So I'm just, I'm going to put that in the behavior column because the situation seems to be about transitioning between work, like paid work and schoolwork. It's in the evening or afternoon and it's where your time is less structured. I'm going to call it flexible time. That's a bit harder to manage. Okay. Is that accurate so far? Yeah. Okay, so it's transitioning, and the most specific is when you're... If I were to make that even more specific, it's like, I'm about to start the schoolwork.

UNKNOWN:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And I'm curious to know what feelings come up for you when you're about to start the schoolwork. It's about 5 p.m. You're transitioning between... You're in the transitioning headspace. What feelings are you having?

SPEAKER_02:

Dread.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. That's fair. Yeah. What else?

SPEAKER_02:

Exhaustion in advance, maybe. Yeah. Um... so like not so much a feeling, but an experience of like frazzled or yeah, like a sense of like where to begin. And so because of that feeling, then I will default to more like, oh, got to walk the dogs. Yep, I should walk the dogs. You know what I need to do? Wash the dishes.

SPEAKER_00:

So there's, an urgency about other tasks

SPEAKER_02:

yeah often i am able usually to to get myself into the kind of headspace that that can sort of uh tamp down into whatever it is that i'm doing but i find that then that that energy tapers

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

As the day continues and as the day continues and you're on your second or third Zoom meeting or sending off your 1500 email or your team going off and there's something that you forgot or whatever. Yeah, that kind of reserve, that inner reserve sort of...

SPEAKER_00:

It's depleted.

SPEAKER_02:

Depletes, yeah. Okay,

SPEAKER_00:

so we've got exhaustion. I'll put... depleted as well are there feelings of like um discouraged like feeling discouraged or feeling self-critical in these in this moment where you're where you're about to start the school work

SPEAKER_02:

there's a standard in my head of how things should be and how i should be and and some of that draws from how i might have once been and so yeah some there's a lot of like inner like frustration Okay,

SPEAKER_00:

and you were about to say inner, is it critic?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, like this inner...

SPEAKER_00:

Can I say critical? Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_01:

For sure.

SPEAKER_00:

David, this is a good amount of feelings. There might be more there. Like, I imagine overwhelm or anxiety are also present. For

SPEAKER_01:

sure.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. But... I think we're going to shift away from creating more feelings. So this is a good list. And I want you to think about this moment at 5 p.m. You're about to shift. You're about to start the schoolwork. Tell me on a scale of 1 to 10, how intensely you feel each of these things. So dread. Seven. All right. And what about exhaustion? Eight. Depleted. Eight. Frazzled. Six. Urgency.

SPEAKER_02:

Six, seven. How

SPEAKER_00:

about uncertainty?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, eight.

SPEAKER_00:

So, the feelings we've identified are dread, exhaustion, depleted, frazzled, urgency, uncertainty, frustration, critical, and overwhelm. Now, I'm trying to, what I want to do is connect some of these feelings to thoughts. So, for example, when you feel dread, what are you thinking? What's going on in your mind?

SPEAKER_02:

More. Maybe more than I can handle or more than I, like, I don't know if I have enough in me for what's needed out of me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So this is more than I can handle. How about when you think about the frazzled?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, sometimes I just find myself just, and even if you were to see my desk right now, just papers and pens and notebooks and yeah, where to begin, you know? Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

So I don't know where to begin. Fair. And then you get this urgency to do other things where you get sucked into other tasks. What's the thought process there?

SPEAKER_02:

I'd be able to think better if I tidied the kitchen and my office.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I can totally appreciate that. And then we move over to like frustration and being self-critical. Tell me about those thoughts. What's coming up for you there?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, my God. An hour and a half has gone by. I've read one article. I've written three lines.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. And then what does the overwhelm and the anxiety tell you?

SPEAKER_02:

Danger.

SPEAKER_00:

Danger.

SPEAKER_02:

Danger. Yeah. Say more. You're running out of hours. The day's almost done. You're... Your inner reserve is really like, you're not going to make it to.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Now I'm going to go back to the behavior column for a moment. As a result of this, I'm wondering if you actually, do you end up staying up later by any chance than you intended? Often. Okay. I'm saying that because I'm getting the picture of like, like revenge, procrastination, bedtime. Have you heard that phrase before?

SPEAKER_02:

Not at all.

SPEAKER_00:

No, it's when you feel like your time has been all spoken for and you feel resentful and you want revenge. And so you stay up later to have the me time. So I'm seeing a bit of that maybe play out. Do you still reserve some time for you at the end of this long day?

SPEAKER_02:

Honestly, the imagery that comes to mind is like, even I have one of those special chairs, I feel like spinning. So when I hear that, I'm like, okay, well, maybe that means I shluff off all the work and go and, I don't know, do something interesting. I don't. The extra time is spent thinking about the things that need to get done. planning for the planning for the planning for the doing. And

SPEAKER_00:

then you're like... Do you spend time planning for the doing?

SPEAKER_02:

Or is that like an idea that gets tossed out? I say planning. Maybe that's a lie. I feel like it's... I say it's planning, but it's actually just like ruminating and worrying. Ah, okay. Planning would mean that there's a structure. That it's like, okay, well, this is what we're going to do and this is what we're going to do and this is what we're going to do. Rather than... Yeah, the worry and the...

SPEAKER_00:

So there's a part of you here that's like thinking about creating a plan for tasks, and it turns into rumination. And the reason I asked about if you have some me time at the end of the night is because I'm wondering if there's a resentful part of you that has a clear thought that's like, I deserve me time, or... I put too much on myself or something like that. Or I wish I had something. Are any of those kinds of thoughts resonating with you?

SPEAKER_02:

Like, yeah, it's now 10 o'clock. And I'm like, I have to walk the dogs. I, you know, really should get to sleep because I start my day, I wake up fairly early. But I'm like, but you didn't really get as much done as you needed to get done. Oh

SPEAKER_01:

my God, what's wrong with you?

SPEAKER_02:

spiral and then you know what i'll do i'm just gonna lay here for 30 minutes stare at the ceiling and 30 minutes becomes 45 okay so

SPEAKER_00:

something's wrong with me for not getting things done now here's another question um about that's going to help me understand the quality of your anxiety are you also do you also have thoughts related to your ability to get the tasks done? Because so far we're talking about energy and planning, but is there something about the task itself that's hard? Like maybe you think this project is too difficult, or I'm not sure what I want to say, or I have a lot to say, I'm not sure how it's going to pan out, something

SPEAKER_02:

like that. Oh, things for sure. Help

SPEAKER_00:

me narrow it down so it's in your words.

SPEAKER_02:

maybe it's not an absence of energy or time or focus. Maybe it's an absence of capability, right? So then it becomes less about, there's one thing where it's a critique of like, okay, I've not done enough. I've not had enough time. I've not used my time wisely, which are all valid observations and critiques. And then it becomes, well, maybe I'm just, God, like, you know, maybe it's just two brain cells rubbing together. Maybe it's a me thing, you know, like, and then it becomes, you know, maybe I'm just a little slow, you know? Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

So I've written it out as, I might be hiding behind tiredness, but really I'm not capable of the academic work. Right. Okay. So here are our automatic thoughts so far. This is more than I can handle. I don't know where to begin. I'm going to put those two closer together. I'll be able to think better if I tidy things up first. Time is going by quickly. I'm not getting enough done. Danger, you're running out of time and you're not going to make it. This seems really similar to the one above, so I'm just going to remove it. But I hear you. It's like a danger signal in your brain. And maybe image, I'm spinning. Something's wrong with me for not getting things done, and I might be hiding behind tiredness, but really, I'm not capable of the academic work. Okay, this is a good set of automatic thoughts. Of course, none of them helpful, right? Because that's what keeps you stuck. I want to make a couple comments on them, and then I'm going to ask you some follow-up questions, okay? So, one is, is I want to talk about I'll be able to think better if I tidy things up first. So have you heard of the phrase misattribution of arousal?

SPEAKER_01:

I

SPEAKER_00:

have. You have? I

SPEAKER_01:

have. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

So for our listeners, because I think this could be a fun teachable moment, when you have a lot of energy that's built up, that's dedicated for one task, And then you sit down to do it, and all of a sudden, that urgency gets transferred or attributed to something else. We call that a misattribution of arousal. When I teach students about that concept, the classic example I use is one of Sex and the City. Did you ever watch that show, David?

SPEAKER_02:

I did,

SPEAKER_00:

actually. You did. So there's this funny moment where Charlotte is crossing the street, and she falls, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

And then somebody's in a cab and they slam on the brakes and out comes Trey, right? So she looks at him and immediately she's like, that's the man for me. Now, one, she's a hopeless romantic, so of course she thinks that, but we can apply this theory to her as well, right? There's an arousal around the danger situation and it gets misattributed as love.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And then it gets misattributed as something else. So how is this relevant to you? Well, this might end up being something we try to combat later in our alternative thought. So we might say like a tidy apartment is good for a thinking space, but not necessary for today. So we'll come back to that. And I wanted to mention it because I think we might need something to combat misattribution of arousal because it's common for some people. Does that make sense? Okay. Any questions about that concept?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So the activation that I'm feeling around the outstanding work to be done, I... begin to then attribute that or place that energy onto other sorts of things like, ugh, this place is a mess or, you know, if only I could deal with that, then okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, that's exactly it. And so people ask, well, what do I do about that? Do I just not do it? Well, we need to reduce the level of arousal. The arousal is really high because you've probably slated yourself to do too much in that evening. Mm-hmm. So the arousal comes down if we say, I only need to do a specific thing or two today. And then you're less likely to have to misattribute it or shift the urgency onto something else. Okay, I'm going to ask you some follow-up questions with the automatic thoughts because I want to get a better sense of them or what they mean. And so when you say something like, I'm going to start at the bottom of this list. I might be hiding behind my tiredness, but really, I'm not capable of the academic work. Right. David, it's a harsh criticism of yourself, but if you're not, let's say that's true. You're not capable of the academic work. What does that say about you as a person, as a professional? Failure. I'm a failure. Yes. And in this context, what will the consequence be?

SPEAKER_02:

Not being able to complete my studies.

SPEAKER_00:

And then what happens?

SPEAKER_02:

Not being able to continue in my profession. And...

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So when you say I am a failure, I can see how that comes up. I didn't write that down, but that's because that falls... If later on we wanted to extract some of your core beliefs after doing several thought records, that might be one of the ones that you lean into or that you've developed over time. But when we think about what's specific for the situation, you're actually thinking, okay, failure, but what does that mean? What's the consequence? Oh, failure. I'm not able to continue in my profession. And so if you can't continue in your profession, what do you worry will happen? Money-wise, job-wise?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Becoming... poor and losing my ability to care for myself and to meet my needs and to feed, clothe, and shelter myself.

SPEAKER_00:

So I'll be poor and won't be self-sufficient. Is poverty something you've experienced in the past? Mm-hmm. Okay. So I'm going to say in brackets, I'll be poor. again because there's i think there's a clear picture in your mind about what you don't want to go back to okay now that's a pretty big consequence and that's a lot of weight that's a big thing to carry how are you feeling just having shared that with me

SPEAKER_02:

um i feel a little exposed Not that it's a thought that I haven't expressed to myself or to those in my life, but it's interesting to hear it said to you. So even when you sort of outlaid the succession of events that this particular line of thought brings about, like hearing you say it to me, rather than me saying it and intellectualizing it, there was an embodied experience that I... I was like, oh. And it sort of expressed itself in sort of that anxious laughter, you

SPEAKER_01:

know?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Poverty. Failure. You know?

SPEAKER_00:

Look, we got there quite, rather quickly. And so it tells me that it's something that you, it might be quite central in your life, I'm not sure. Because when I think about this is more than I can handle, I don't know where to begin. And then time's going by quickly. I'm not getting enough done. Something's wrong with me for not getting things done. All of those things, they actually sound quite similar. Right? So if I said to you, David, what is the consequence if something's wrong with you? You might actually end up at a similar place. You might say, oh, okay, then it's going to be about profession. And then what's wrong if you don't finish this degree? Oh, I'll be poor and I won't be self-sufficient. Now, I do want to consider if it could also go in another direction, right? So when you say something's wrong with me for not getting things done, I do wonder if I think about the people in your life. So your peers or classmates, maybe your coworkers or friends. Is there like a measuring stick or people you compare yourself to who are doing the things you're doing and able to get it done?

SPEAKER_02:

You. Well, I say that, yeah, a lot of the people that I'm in relation with, proximity to, seem to have, seem to have mastered the ability to keep all the balls in the air. And I also feel that the measuring stick is not only on and for, you know, folks like yourself and others that I'm connected to, but also to an earlier version of myself. I feel maybe that's inaccurate, but there's a feeling that I once was able to manage more and that I'm not as able as I get older and now. And maybe there's this connection for me around the like running out of time, like, you know, just not enough time to be tripping here.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Thank you for that. So each of those thoughts that you gave are useful, and I think we can go in a couple of directions here. So the last thing that you said, I used to be able to manage more. I'm wondering if for you there is another thought related to that that, like, I'm losing my skills or they're going to continue to erode in some way. I

SPEAKER_02:

don't know if the feeling is the losing of skill as much as it's the losing of energy, of overall capacity, which is not so much the skill.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Now, I'm not like people I know who seem very productive. And you said, you, that's me.

SPEAKER_02:

And so many others.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes,

SPEAKER_02:

yes, there are. It's, God, I really used to be able to do more and manage more and hold more and complete more. And now there's not that same reserve of energy and capacity. And here are a fleet of colleagues in this space whose pace has not, like, faltered right like my pace is faltering as time has gone on i'm slower at this than i was i'm i get i get tired by eight o'clock i'm ready for a nap by nine and folks that i've known and who do comparable work are endless in their in their inner resource

SPEAKER_00:

okay this is interesting because we've got directions that we can go in. One is about my energy and capacity has changed over time, which doesn't seem to be true for my peers. And part of that might be factual, and the other part is comparative. The second other thought that's quite prominent is, you know, I could be poor again and I won't be self-sufficient. So my question for you, David, is when you sit down and you're about to start your schoolwork, you're transitioning between work and school. It's about 5 p.m. You've got so much ahead of you. You've just had a full day. And I'm curious to know which of these thoughts is the most prominent. We're trying to identify your hot thought. So what's driving the feelings more? Is it about my energy and capacity has changed over time, which doesn't seem to be true for my peers? Or if I can't do this, I'll be poor again and won't be self-sufficient?

SPEAKER_02:

I'll be poor.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's the one we're going to look at. For this other one, I'm going to put it in italics because when we come to the alternative thought column, I still want us to come up with an alternative thought for it, but we're not going to evaluate it the same way we're going to evaluate the hot thought. Does that make sense? Okay. So the next column is about evaluating this, or the next two columns are about evaluating this. So what is evidence that supports this idea that you could be poor again and you won't be self-sufficient, right? This came from somewhere. Maybe you've already seen a decline in your disposable income as a result of I don't know, not being able to work as much or while you've been in school. Or maybe you've had periods in your life where finishing school or the credential held you back and you were like, oh, I couldn't get the high paying job.

SPEAKER_02:

My first go around grad school years ago and trying to juggle work, school, home, partner projects and things getting really tight and I had to pull back on work.

SPEAKER_00:

Ah,

SPEAKER_02:

okay. I had to pull back on work and I wasn't bringing in as much funds and I had to put up my home for rent and I significantly downsized, lived in a commune or whatever.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, okay, okay. So I'm going to write here, past experience with graduate school, finances got really tight and I lost some quality of life. Okay, yeah, that, David, that alone is quite significant. And I can appreciate a fear of having to experience this kind of decline again. Are there other pieces of evidence from your life where the reality of being poor again or not being as self-sufficient showed up for you?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, there was an experience, you know, I ended up moving away and I lived abroad. And then I came home due to some family issues related stuff and because I had to leave my work and my home and everything in England and I came home and I had to take care of family stuff but I wasn't I quickly ran out of my savings and my whatever and was essentially homeless You know, what do they call it?

SPEAKER_00:

Secondary homelessness.

SPEAKER_02:

Is that what it's called?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, like you were couch surfing.

SPEAKER_02:

Couch surfing, where you're like, you know. And yeah, it was a really an interesting, less than a year, but an interesting number of months. And I was like,

SPEAKER_00:

wow. David, not interesting, traumatic.

SPEAKER_02:

Let me self-soothe, and let's call it interesting for now. But no, it was, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm just saying it's big, right? And I can see why this automatic thought gets activated for you, because you've been there. So let's move over to the next column, which is evidence that does not support your hot thought. What's some evidence that maybe suggests that... you have more stability than you give yourself credit for or that you can bounce back from difficult experiences or that your future does look bright financially or does look good financially.

SPEAKER_02:

Like I've always, there's a resourcefulness. I've always been able to find my feet in some way.

SPEAKER_00:

What about your employability? Do you feel like you're employable?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. So I'm gonna put that down as evidence if that's okay? Sure. Any other evidence that suggests that you won't be poor or that evidence that suggests you could be self-sufficient?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, when I had no letters after my name, I was employable. When I had a few, I was employable.

SPEAKER_00:

So I'm jumping over to the next column, which is alternative thoughts, right? Which is my skills and employability are not necessarily marked by academic achievement. I can get a job anyway. We jumped to this column a bit quickly, so I'm just gonna back up for a sec. The alternative thought is a thought that takes the evidence that we have into account and speaks directly to your automatic thought, or in your case, your automatic thoughts. So this is something that we hope you could tell yourself to reduce the arousal, to reduce the anxiety. So, I'll be poor again and won't be self-sufficient. What would you say that directly counters that or speaks to that?

SPEAKER_02:

I'm not my education. I'm not this degree. I... I have skills and utility beyond this experience or this.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

I want to affirm, I guess, yeah, I want to affirm the things that are outside of my control and then also acknowledge the things that are.

SPEAKER_00:

So which part is outside of your control?

SPEAKER_02:

The unsurety, insecurity, all those things that I can't. determined, right? But I can do the things I need to do now and acknowledge that right now I am well, I'm capable.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Now I'm going to, we've been, we've got some good statements that counter your hot thought. I want to take a moment to see if we can come up with one alternative thought to the statement, my energy and capacity have changed over time, which doesn't seem to be true for my peers.

SPEAKER_02:

It is true. This is the

SPEAKER_00:

thing. So let's have a short conversation about this. Because we've known each other for a long time. And you named me as one of the people. I'm also struggling with the same thing, actually. I haven't been comparing myself to other people like, oh, their energy hasn't depleted, but I have my energy and capacity has changed significantly over time. So I go to bed early. I love to have fun and I haven't been having as much fun and I'm grieving that part of myself. I used to love to go on dates and meet guys and Romance and dating and even casual sex was important to me. And I can't seem to find space, energy or time for it. And the energy of being seductive, being charming, and then also being rejected is something I have avoided. in a huge way. And so the energy I do have has gone toward work. But I don't know if that helps you in any way to know that about me. There was a phrase that I saw on social media that I thought was helpful, which said, don't compare your behind the scenes to somebody else's Highlight reels. Highlight reels, yes.

SPEAKER_02:

I very much internalize it. It's almost, it's not, it's more, David, what happened? You know, what happened? You can't stay up past nine o'clock. What's wrong with you? You know, why can't you focus in the way that you used to? And so I just wanted to say that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no, I'm glad you did because I think, I think an alternative thought emerges from that, which is that my energy and capacity have changed over time. And that means I need to schedule less.

SPEAKER_02:

All of our energies are depleting and do less.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, so everyone's energy is limited. Thank you. I can optimize mine by committing to fewer things. Yes. David, I'm going to read your alternative thoughts out. I want you to really think about them as I read them and think about how you feel in your body. So my skills and employability are not necessarily marked by academic achievement. I'm in school to get better at what I'm already doing. I have skills and utility beyond this academic credential. I can't determine or predict instability for the future, but I can take care of myself now. Everyone's energy is limited. I can optimize mine by committing to fewer things. Which of these do you really love that really speak to you that you believe in?

SPEAKER_02:

Usefulness is a purpose. And so I feel more resonant with the third. Yeah. And then be the last. This optimizing energy.

SPEAKER_00:

All right. I'm gonna write out some of the feelings you had listed before, and we're gonna re-rate them. So when you think about these two thoughts, I have skills and utility beyond this academic credential, and everyone's energy is limited. I can optimize mine by committing to fewer things. Where's your dread on a scale of one to 10? Five. And exhaustion? Five, six. Okay, and depleted? Six. Frazzled. Six. Urgency. Five. Uncertainty. Six. Frustration. Four. Critic. Six. Overwhelm. Six. Anxiety. Six. Any new feelings coming up?

SPEAKER_02:

Determination. Yeah. Excitement. Look at you. Get out of my head, Rahim. No wonder you're good at this.

SPEAKER_00:

A lot of your scores went down. A little bit. Not a ton, but a little bit. And this is the first step toward a longer-term change. Right? you are in a circumstance that might be setting you up for failure. Right? Because if we're saying I'm going to optimize my energy by committing to fewer things, that means that in this moment, while you're still in this program, you're overcommitted. When you say this is more than I can handle, in some ways it's true. But not because I'm not brilliant, because you are. it's because I bit off more than I could chew. Right. So I think we're thinking it's going to be a rough go for a little bit, but in the future we need to be mindful of how much you sign up for and how you recalibrate yourself, acknowledging that there's limited energy. David, how was this process for you? It

SPEAKER_02:

was good. It was, uh, It was uncomfortable in the earlier parts of this. Sure. But definitely it feels a little, yeah, a little better.

SPEAKER_00:

David, we're going to leave it there. I want to thank you so much for being a guest on the CBT Dive. This was great. Thank you. Thank you so much, David. And that's the CBT Dive for today. Thank you for joining us as we demonstrate therapy skills for the real world. Please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and follow us on social media. The CBT Dive is intended for educational purposes only and not as a replacement for individual therapy.

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Rahim Thawer, MSW

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