The CBT Dive

CBT Shorts: The Aftermath of Being Ghosted

• Rahim Thawer, MSW • Season 1 • Episode 22

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We all know how infuriating it can be when someone ghosts you after a couple of dates. It's okay to feel frustrated and deceived. But what else comes up for you in those moments? 🤔

In our latest Shorts episode, we're bringing you the key moments from the original episode so you can dive into the heart of the discussion where we explore the underlying fears that reawaken in the emotional aftermath of being ghosted. These include fears of being unworthy or not masculine enough for gay dating culture and the overarching fear of never finding happiness. 😥

Join us as we break down how our guest, through the thought record process, challenges his beliefs about the formulas and frameworks of relationship-seeking. 🌟💬

Don’t miss this insightful and compact version of our deep dive into the emotional experience. Check it out now and let us know your thoughts in the comments below! ⬇️🗣️

#TheCBTDive #CBTShorts #Podcast #MentalHealth #Ghosting #Relationships #Therapy #EmotionalWellbeing #SelfWorth #CBTDive


ABOUT THE CBT DIVE PODCAST
The CBT Dive is a video podcast that brings therapy skills to the real world. Each episode welcomes a new guest who wants to explore a challenging situation using the most common cognitive behavioural therapy tool: the thought record.

ABOUT HOST
Rahim Thawer is a queer, racialized social worker and psychotherapist based in Toronto. He's created The CBT Dive podcast to support folks who want to learn how to use a thought record and to demystify what therapy can look like.

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SPEAKER_00:

Hello and welcome to The CBT Dive, a video podcast that shows you how to use cognitive behavioral therapy skills in real life. I'm psychotherapist and social worker Rahim Thawar, and today's show is a CBT Shorts episode where we've collected moments from the original for you to dip into. Welcome to another episode of The CBT Dive. Today, I've got Joe Ash with me. Joe Ash is a 42-year-old sales professional working in the global workforce mental health field. He's based in Johannesburg, South Africa. Joe Ash navigates life as a single cisgender gay man, a relatively new relationship status after a 13-year committed relationship. But after three years of being single, With a rather adventurous dating lifestyle or life, he feels like he's ready for a serious commitment once more. So we're joined by Joash today, who is going to explore the experience of being ghosted. Joash, how are you today? I'm good, Rahim. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. I'm going to go ahead and share my screen. Okay, so Joash, what we're starting with here is a situation that brings up difficult feelings for you, okay? And that situation is this moment, and I know it's not just one moment, it probably happens over the course of a couple of hours, where you realize that you've been ghosted because the texting pattern with this person who we're gonna call Ellie has changed and he's stopped responding, okay?

SPEAKER_01:

Is

SPEAKER_00:

there anything else you want to share about the particular situation or the moments when you realized you'd been ghosted? Yeah. So let me give you some context and some background to this. So I had met Eddie on one of the dating apps and He wasn't particularly my type and he had texted me. He was polite and he was engaging and he was entertaining. And then I think he suggested he'd like to meet. So we did meet and he came over to my place. We connected on so many levels. He made me laugh in a way that many people don't generally do. And because I felt this connection and the strong chemistry with him, On that night when we met, it also became physical, which neither of us were expecting. And in the run up to that first meeting, there was very frequent texting between the two of us. And he was very responsive. And then we scheduled a second date. And in the run-up to the second date, I could see that the texting patterns had changed. But he did give some context to why it had changed. He said that he had a family event. And so then we met. And that second date was dinner and a movie. And throughout the dinner and movie, it was pretty good. But I could also sense during dinner that something had changed, shifted a little. But I was, I just thought that maybe I was reading into things a little too much. Like he was very, he was effusive with his attraction to me. He's like constantly told me how much he thought that I was, that he found me attractive. And that in the second date had also changed. Like he stopped telling me that he thought that I was so attractive any longer. And He had picked me up from my place for the second date. And so he dropped me off. And when he dropped me off, he declined to come in. Then there was further lulls in the texting conversation. And again, he gave reasons for that. You know, he was busy with work. And I think so that that dinner and movie was either on a Saturday or Sunday. And... I think the Monday and Tuesday we texted, and then by the Wednesday or Thursday, there was radio silence. And so, yeah, here we are a good few months later, and that was the trajectory of that. Now, the thing that was so frustrating is that I never even found the guy physically attractive, but I felt... into something with his personality. And I thought like, oh my God, this guy is the kind of person that while I don't find him physically attractive, like there's something here that I could work with. And so to be ghosted by someone that I didn't even find physically attractive was like hella infuriating, but it was also the potential of what could have been because this is someone that I've felt there could be substance here. Sure. Okay, I'm going to pause you there. So the Wednesday after date two, and you discover the radio silence, you felt frustrated, infuriated. What were the other feelings you were experiencing? Frustrated, infuriated, angry with myself. angry with myself for falling for someone that was not. And again, I keep saying this physical type thing because I believe to an extent it is bullshit. I think that we can build a connection with anyone that we have a cerebral connection with regardless of the physicality. My belief is that we're conditioned into having physical types. And so I try as much as possible to not veer towards this physical type. But having said that, he was not someone that I would typically find myself dating physically. And so I found myself being angry that I started feeling attraction to someone I generally would have walked past. In a way, you're taking... It's like a risk. And when you take a risk... and you get a slap in the face, I'm trying to figure out what the feeling there would be. Would it be like a kind of embarrassment? What are the other feelings? Taken advantage of? Possibly taken advantage of. I always say this to myself, trust your instinct. And I felt that in that moment in time, I didn't trust my instinct. I was taken with how I was flattered by how much he found me attractive in his words. So it's almost like I was driven by my ego in that moment. And then my ego let me down. Okay, so instead of taking advantage of, I just used the word used. It's a bit shorter, of course. When you talk about... the bruising of the ego. I'm trying to figure out what feeling words could be attached to that. And again, my mind is going to embarrassed. I would say it's despair. Despair. If I had to. Okay. Okay. I'm going to leave embarrassed there, but I recognize that despair is one of the more prominent words. I also want to ask if there was sadness. Sadness and despair. Yeah. To me, those go hand in hand. Okay. And did you personally feel rejected? Like he doesn't like me? Yeah. Yeah. Without a doubt. Because if you think about it, if I have to think about it rather, something had to have happened, right? Either it was a reaction to something I've said, a reaction to who I am on any kind of level, whether it was he was looking for this person masculine Adonis and here I am with this very femme personality and being. And that was not aligned with what he wanted. I don't know. I still don't know what I was rejected for. The thoughts that went through your mind were about like, am I too femme or do I not meet his ideal? I wonder if the feeling there is about around inferiority or inadequacy. Perhaps inferior, but also where do I fit in to this ideal? gay dating scene, but also where do I fit into his world? So confused. Yeah. Or were you questioning your worth for the moment? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. Absolutely. Okay. Which is why the very first thing I did was log back onto the dating apps. So you were feeling determined and a bit vengeful as well. Because, you know, it's like, You motherfucker, I'm gonna show you I can get dick if I want to. Yes, yes. Okay, I want you to go back to the Wednesday after date two when you discovered the radio silence and help me with each of these feelings. I want you to rate them on a scale of one to 10 in terms of intensity. So 10 means it's quite intense. How would you rate frustration? I would say that was... Probably a seven. How would you rate inferiority? Yeah, I would say that was probably at about an eight. Again, because like, how dare he? And then anger. He most certainly does not. So was the anger also about an eight? Uh-huh. Okay. And feeling used. or taken advantage of, how would you rate that? Maybe that's a six. Okay. And embarrassed? Because I don't embarrass easily, I would put that at perhaps a four. Okay. And despair? That would be about an eight. Eight. And sadness, would that also be an eight? Because you said sadness and despair go hand in hand. Agreed. And then the feeling of rejection. Oh, I mean, that's a 10 because I mean, clearly I was rejected in that. Yes. Feeling of inadequacy. Like I'm not enough or maybe I'm not, I don't fit the aesthetic or whatever it is. Yeah. I would rate that at about a four to be honest. And then confused. I imagine that was a bit high. That was high. I would say that was a 10. And then unworthy, similar to inadequate, but slightly different. How was your sense of worthiness? I would say that's also at about a four, maybe even a five. And then to what degree did you feel vengeful and determined? So give me a rating of intensity for each one. I'm determined with the 10, honey. I'd say like, you know, maybe subconsciously I'm vengeful, but generally I wouldn't call myself a vengeful person, but I'd say that's probably a seven. Cause like, you know what you go, I'm going to do this anyway, with or without you. Yes. And there's also, you know, earlier when we were talking about being used, and I know that that word didn't quite fit. I wonder if a better word would be deceived. Did you feel like you were deceived? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a good word. And so how would you rate your level of deception that you experienced? I would put that at like a 10. Ah, okay. So the feelings that... got the highest ratings were deceived, rejected, confused, determined. And, you know, the most painful ones are probably deceived and rejected. And then confused is a bit neutral and determined. We tend to see that we would see that as positive. So it's not a surprise to me that deceived got lost earlier because There's so many strong feelings and some overshadow others. And then you have your second set of difficult feelings and maybe some of the more painful ones, infuriated, anger, despair, sadness. And then we go down a notch, vengeful, frustration, used, unworthy, inadequate, and embarrassed. So now, Joash, Wednesday after date two, you discover the radio silence. You're feeling this range of emotions. One of the things you did in terms of your behavior was go back onto the dating apps, right? The other thing you're doing is you're also thinking about the future. you'd built up in your mind with this person. So you're reflecting a bit on where you let your imagination go. Is there anything else you did? So immediate behaviors would be telling my friends and say, can you believe the nerve of this fucking asshole who's just ghosted me? Yes. So seeking some validation. Seeking validation, yeah. Yeah. And probably the bigger aspect of seeking validation was getting back into the dating apps. Okay. And when you think about... you know, when you earlier, one of the first feelings you came up with was anger and you said anger toward myself. And so I'm thinking that anger and feeling deceived are, there's a connection between those two. Cause it's not just, I was deceived or I feel deceived. I've been tricked, but there's a piece of you that says, I let myself be deceived. So in your mind, when you say, I feel deceived, I feel anger. What are you thinking? What's the thought there? That I allowed myself to get into that situation against my better judgment. I would have walked past this guy had I seen him on the street and not really paid him any attention. And my friends tease me in that I find 90% of men hot. He's not in the 90%. Joe Ash, we can tell the audience, I am that friend who teases you. Anytime we're together, I'm like, oh my gosh, Joe Ash finds this guy. He's so hot. Like what a surprise. So look, I think when it comes to confusion, there's confusion about what happened, but I think there's also confusion around your approach to dating. It throws you for a loop in a way, because on the one hand you say, you know, you lead with physical attraction when you first meet somebody. And then you also think that physical attraction doesn't have to be completely important. And I wonder if it makes that confuses you a bit. So it does. Now I have a sense of why you felt deceived and what the thought is that's connected to that. Tell me about the thought that was connected to feeling rejected, inadequate and unworthy. because even though those have different ratings, I would group them together in terms of similarity of emotion. So let me give you some other context that I didn't mention to you. Yes. So Eddie is a white man who has a penchant for brown men like myself. Now, the minute I heard that, it was a red flag. that I am just fulfilling his fetish for brown men. And I don't like that. Especially if you're white, don't fetishize me. And so if you fell into this fetish and you ignored the red flags, what does that mean? That I'm not as attuned to my inner thoughts as I... thought I was. And you know that I'm not on social media. And one of the reasons why I took myself off of social media is I didn't like who I was when I got the attention from people. It kind of made me narcissistic. And I didn't like that. I found myself seeking that validation. Okay. So I tried to put, when I asked Like, what does this mean for you? Or what does it say about you? I got a couple of things, but I'm not sure if I captured it accurately. So help me here. The first thing is I'm not as attuned to myself and people dynamics as I thought. And the other one is affirmations from people are good for my ego. And I don't want to be at the mercy of others likes. So that's accurate. And so, It is accurate. And so I can give you some more context to that. So I grew up as a fat kid. I started to lose weight when I was a young adult. And over the course of my adult life, my weight would fluctuate as it still does to this day. And immediately when I was heavier, the first question people would ask me, are you still going to gym? and i knew for someone who does religiously go to gym whether i'm fat or thin um i i knew that was a subtle way of asking or of saying oh you've gone fat um and so conversely when people would say oh you're looking you've lost weight you're looking so great i would consciously distance myself from um from that association that my attractiveness is built into the size of my body. While I have tried to consciously dissociate myself from people's perception of my level of attractiveness, I clearly do not within the context of dating. So in this context with Ellie, when you were ghosted was one of your thoughts about your body?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah,

SPEAKER_00:

not just body. you know it goes into all facets of who I am the other components are going back to what we mentioned earlier am I just too too effeminate for him am I not brown enough for him because while I am a brown person I'm not the most brown person out there in terms of cultural identity he's has follows Hindu religion and all of these fucking things that I you know while I'm curious about it. I don't. I grew up Christian. I don't eat curry and biryani every day while I do love it. Does he do that? I think he does. I don't know. Who the fuck cares? But, you know, I mean, this is more than a red flag. Somebody who eats biryani every day is a red flag, sweetie. I don't know, but he was like culturally a lot more brown than I was. That's what I'm saying. And he made you feel for a moment, not brown enough. Cause like to be brown doesn't mean to be Hindu, right? But that from, from the white, the perspective of the white gaze, that is absolutely what brownness is. It's about, you know, like images of gods and goddesses or higher beings, it's ritual and all of this kind of stuff. So, You're thinking I'm not brown enough. So go stay with this for a moment. If you're not brown like other men or you're not as into this idea of culture, then what does that say about you? Is that he may not see me as being authentic. He may see me as being what other people would. And does that mean that you for a moment worry that you're not authentic enough or you're not connected enough to your identity? I don't feel that, but I feel that that may be his perception. And coming back to my body isn't thin enough or good enough, did this person ever comment on your body? He did. He was actually very positive about my body. He always says, oh, I can see your workout. And I got sucked into the ego play that was there. So... When you say my body isn't thin enough or good enough, like that's one of the thoughts. I get that you've gone through a process of self-acceptance, but you're also saying here that it's not thin enough or good enough for gay culture. Is that right? If we were to bring that into this situation, is that this guy maybe lied to me about being into my body. Is that what you're thinking? Yeah. Okay. And when you think your body isn't good enough for gay culture, is there a fear associated with that? So the fear for me is that you'll never fit into or you'll never find happiness. So if I don't fit into the textbook definition of what a gay man should look like, then my chances diminish. So... you know, if your body isn't thin enough or good enough for gay culture, what you're saying here is that there are fewer opportunities for sparking.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

With other gay men. Right. And in a moment where you're feeling quite dire, you might say, I'll never find happiness. That's like the underlying fear. Okay. Let's pause here for a moment. I'm going to go back to a couple of the thoughts that we've already put down here. What we have been doing is we've been enumerating what I would call your automatic thoughts. Now, because you had four feelings that had a rating of 10, another four that had a rating of eight, right? We're working with Eight feelings that are quite prominent. So now it's my job to ask you some follow-up questions. I want to distill these thoughts into something that's a bit more basic or something that's helping to drive a lot of the difficult feelings. So when you say I allowed myself to get into the situation despite my better judgment, like if I were to ask you, what does that mean? Is that again about you not being attuned? As attuned as you thought? Yeah. Okay. It is about that. It's also about not trusting my instinct. Okay. So your instinct. Now this is tricky because your instinct was about physical attraction, was it not? Or was your instinct, was the red flag that I'm not physically attracted to him so I shouldn't go further? No. Or was your instinct that he fetishizes brown men, so I shouldn't take it, I shouldn't pursue it? It's both of those. And when you didn't listen to those things, what is it, there's a reason you did it. You know, what were you, why did you want to put them aside? You were hoping that, what would happen? So the reason I put them aside is because the banter, the conversation, the chemistry and the spark were all there. And so I thought, let's give him the benefit of the doubt. And so what if his previous partner was Brown? And if that's his thing, then that's his thing. But this is like a really nice guy that I'm having a great time with. Surely he deserves to have a chance So he deserves to have a chance. And you started building up an image in your mind about what your future could be like together. How far did your mind go? So a life together, a life as in a committed relationship, which comes with all the accoutrement of what a committed relationship is. So part of this is like he deserves a chance and we could have a life together together. And if we go into that a bit deeper, it's about, I thought we'd have a life together. And the consequence is I'll never find happiness. So my question to you, Joash, is which of these thoughts would you identify as your hot thought? Meaning the one that is most salient, the one that's most prominent, that's driving a lot of the difficult feelings. Yeah. It's I'll never find happiness. Yeah. Now we're going to go through a short process of evaluating this thought. What is some evidence you have in your dating and relationship life that supports the idea that you'll never find happiness? I've been dating for three and a half years and I've not been able to have something that sustained beyond two, maybe three dates, while other people have been single for far less time than I have. And they have went on to merrily find their version of happiness. Is there somebody you're thinking about in particular? A friend and also my ex went on to have two significant relationships after me. Look, I'm going to come back to the automatic thoughts, actually. because you said something right now that made me think that perhaps I'll never find happiness is a belief you have, or it's a scary belief you have. If we were to add to that, is it I'll never, if you were to say I'll never find happiness because, how would you finish that sentence? Because I don't meet the expectations of what people want in a relationship. And what do they want? Someone who is more masculine has a more perfect body because I'm again, furthest away from that. Is this like the Adonis fatigue physique you're talking about? Like the broad shoulders, small waist, big butt. Okay. Let's go back to evidence that supports this hot thought that you'll never find happiness because you're not masculine enough or don't have the Adonis physique. Where else do you get evidence that supports that? So your friend and your ex, are they more masculine? Do they have that physique? Yeah. I mean, if you had to look up a picture of Adana's physique, both of them are those images. Ah, okay. Is there any other evidence? Like, for example, has someone told you that they would date you if you were more masculine or had a different physique?

UNKNOWN:

No.

SPEAKER_00:

So someone in relation to you said, oh, I'm not really into camp men. Or, you know, you're cute, but you're just too femme or whatever the case is. Ah, okay. Okay. Let's go to the other column. Now, this one is a bit harder, but just as important. What is evidence you have that doesn't support this idea? That you'll never find happiness because you're not masculine enough or don't have the Adonis physique? Um... I was in a relationship for 13 years with someone who loved me, whom I loved. Have you been on dates where people appreciated your fem-ness or your campiness? Yeah, I was dating someone who loved... Again, it was just like one or two dates that we went on who... thought that my sense of style was really interesting and was fun. And so he liked that about me. And my sense of style is anything but heteronormative. And the same person was also very much in love with my body, you know, everything about my body. And so this is, you've been with a couple of guys then, I think from what I've heard that are really are in love with your body, including the guy who ghosted you, right? Including the fucking guy who goes to me. We're going to move over to the next column, which is the alternative thought. Now, alternative thoughts are not positive affirmations. A positive affirmation would be everything happens for a reason. One day I'll meet the person of my dreams. I don't subscribe to that because I don't think that it speaks to your experience and what you're talking about here. Alternative thoughts are gonna be alternatives to what we have in bold here that says I'll never find happiness because I'm not masculine enough and I don't have the Adonis physique. So given that we've gone through the evidence for and against, what might an alternative thought be? is that I will continue to have a very adventurous and fun dating life. Okay. And is there happiness in that? There is happiness in that, yes. But it's fleeting happiness and it's situational happiness. So when people ghost me, I should remind myself... that I need to kiss a thousand toads before I find a prince. Yes, that, okay. And because that is about, not about what you're lacking, it's about the process. When people ghost me, I should remind myself that it's not about something I'm lacking, but rather the process, kiss a thousand toads. You also said that you really want to get past day two and three. And when that doesn't happen and you're ghosted, what's a helpful thing to remind yourself of or to tell yourself? You're a face in a sea of faces. You're a face in a gallery of faces. Very often we become disposable when you're in that space. gallery of faces because you'd simply move on to the next. So if I don't get past date two or three, it's often because of the culture of being disposable in a sea of options. All right. So here are our alternative thoughts. I will continue to have an adventurous dating life. I can have short periods of happiness. When people ghost me, it's not about something I'm lacking, but rather the process. if I don't get past date two or three, it's often because of the culture of being disposable in a sea of options. Now, you've also been comparing yourself to your ex and your friend. So I think you've got to put something in your alternative thought that captures that. So while either people have more relationships, there's someone for everyone. And so... I may not be the benchmark, but not everyone likes vanilla. Yes. While I do want a relationship, I still really enjoy the whole dating culture that I'm in right now. The comforting thing about being rejected is that you're never going to please 100% of people 100% of time. And I'm okay with that. Okay, so based on what we've just said, tell me what you think about this. I can want a long-term relationship and continue to enjoy dating life. Dating also teaches me new things and it's fair to be upset about feeling deceived. Does that speak to you? Does that capture what you've just been saying? Okay, I'm gonna put that in bold. When you read that, that alternative thought, I want you to think about conjure up the feeling of being ghosted. We've all been there, right? It's painful. Tell yourself, I want a long-term relationship and I continue to enjoy dating life. Dating teaches me new things. And it's fair to be upset right now about being deceived. Does the intensity of being deceived matter? How would you rate it? We're going back to your original feelings and we're rating them now. We're re-rating them. In this moment, when you meditate on the alternative thought, how do you rate the intensity of these feelings? So deceived is still high up there because that's still a 10. Uh-huh, yeah. Good. How about rejected? Five over six. Confused? I would say that's still high. So eight? Yeah. Absolutely. And how determined do you feel? Oh, still a 10, honey. And infuriated? I'd probably say maybe about a seven. Okay. And anger? At yourself? Also about a seven. Okay. Despair? Yeah, like four. Okay. And sadness? Also a four. Okay. Vengefulness? I'll show him. I would say maybe a five. Yes. And your level of frustration? So I'd still put this at about a six or a seven.

UNKNOWN:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

How about feeling used? About four. Unworthy? I would put that at four as well. Mm-hmm. Inadequate? Four. And embarrassed? I would put that at three. All right. Are there any new feelings that are emerging for you? Hopeful. Yeah. Adventurous. I also wonder if you feel a bit... Oh, okay, yeah. Hopeful, optimistic. That's good. You might actually be feeling worthy. You're actually, it's not about how unworthy do I feel, but there's a sense of like worthiness and confidence. If I said like, how worthy do you feel next to this person who short-sightedly ghosted you? You know, I know I'm worthy of many things. So I would rate my worthiness high. I would put it as a nine or a 10 even. Okay. And then is there a kind of righteousness? I would say so. All right. I'm going to leave it there because we were adding new feelings and that's good. So, you know, by the time we get to the end of a thought record, right? Adding new feelings can be helpful because it means that, you know, we've gone from the difficulty of identifying basic emotions in a situation and expanded, expanding to creating space for so many more. So we've got deceived and rejected and rejected. It's gone from 10 to a five deceived has stayed the same. Your level of determination is good, but your resentment and your vengefulness has gone down. You've discovered not just that you're not unworthy, but that you are worthy. You're optimistic, adventurous, hopeful, and you've got a bit of righteousness, which is healthy. You're infuriated, frustrated, angry, confused at a similar level that you were before, but your sense of feeling used has gone down. Your sense of being confused has gone down a bit. And then your feelings of despair, sadness and unworthiness went down quite a bit and inadequate and embarrassed went down just a touch. Have a look at this thought record and just tell me what are some of your overall reflections? So this has articulated things that I've felt but not paid attention to. I still have difficulties with my body and how that manifests itself in the relationships, dating situations that I find myself in. Yeah. And you know what really stood out to me, Joash? It's actually... it's striking and mind blowing to some degree that in your mind, you've got this formula. You have this core belief that people spark with physical attraction and then they build something deeper. And forgive me if this is an overstep or, you know, I've gone too far, but it seems to me like you've built a lot of your gym routine and emphasis on gym and, around being able to provide the initial physical attraction so that something deeper can be built. But you discovered with this person, Ellie, that there wasn't a physical spark to begin with and the other things could be built. So I think there's a larger takeaway here that the formula might be different for different people. The formula can be disrupted or altered sometimes. Joes, I'm going to thank you for being a guest on CBT Die. Maybe we'll see you again. But thank you for going through this process. Take care. Thank you, Rahim. Bye. That's our CBT Shorts episode for today. I'm Rahim Thawar, and thank you for joining us. Please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. If you want more content from us, check out our other social media platforms. The CBT dive is intended for educational purposes and not meant as a replacement for therapy.

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Rahim Thawer, MSW

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